[Applause]
00:06
okay yeah thank you very much for the
00:09
introduction and thank thank all of you
00:13
for inviting me to give this talk as you
00:19
mentioned I have kind of a mixed
00:20
background I have a career as a finance
00:25
professor at the Yale School of
00:27
Management but I have a background in
00:29
archeology and the arts and this book
00:33
which took me about 25 years to write is
00:36
an attempt to bring those two worlds
00:39
together and so you’ll see in this
00:41
presentation it’s mostly visual but I’ve
00:45
also been mindful of the fact that
00:47
although it’s fascinating to dive into
00:50
ancient history it’s also important to
00:52
see what that tells us about today and
00:54
so I’ve chosen a subtitle for my talk
00:57
which is four thousand years of FinTech
01:00
and you’ll see what I mean by that
01:02
shortly the proposition in the book is a
01:07
very simple one but it’s important to
01:09
spell out which is that finance is not a
01:13
way of life finance is not an ethical
01:16
framework finance is a tool finance is a
01:19
technology a set of tools and just like
01:24
just like some mechanical just like
01:28
physics or the application of physical
01:30
principles finance is neither good nor
01:34
bad it’s just a way of getting things
01:37
done now what distinguishes finance as a
01:41
technology there’s one thing which is
01:44
the dimension of time finance is a
01:48
technology for moving value backwards
01:51
and forwards through time and so you can
01:55
think of a loan as the simplest form of
01:58
financial operation and of course when
02:01
you move value backwards and forwards
02:04
through time you have to deal with this
02:06
the veil of uncertainty and the risk
02:08
that’s associated with the future so if
02:10
you think about the two big
02:12
picture issues in in in finance
02:15
one is the dealing with an uncertain
02:19
with future cash flows or or and moving
02:23
them to the present that dimension of
02:24
time the other one is is is the risks
02:27
associated with that and how we ensure
02:29
against them and how we how we take
02:31
those risks okay so I promised to bring
02:37
this up to current issues one of the
02:39
things I get asked about all the time
02:41
and I’m sure all of you get asked about
02:43
this and I’m sure some of you are
02:44
experts in this room is the new
02:46
technology of blockchain and when I
02:50
think a blockchain and and what it is
02:52
good for I think about some of these
02:55
these features that that have been
02:58
proposed it is a distributed ledger
03:02
system that once a transaction has been
03:06
entered into this ledger it’s
03:09
irreversible and it’s mutually
03:12
verifiable and and and it has a
03:16
permanence to it that that is
03:19
anticipated so that you you can’t you
03:24
can you can settle disputes in the
03:25
future it’s it’s quantitative so you can
03:29
put the numbers in there and spell out
03:31
quantities and it can be used mutually
03:34
used as a record for both sides plus
03:39
it’s cheaper so lawyers are kind of
03:41
worried about disintermediation of their
03:43
tasks here is the what I would pose as
03:50
the origins of blockchain technology you
03:55
may not know what this is it looks like
03:56
a toy some of you probably do it’s
03:58
called a bula and it is about 5,000
04:02
years old and it’s a clay ball that was
04:06
used in ancient Mesopotamian cities and
04:10
inside the ball are those little things
04:14
that look like toys these little round
04:17
things so how did it work
04:22
the two parties would contract for
04:26
delivery of some future good in this
04:29
case this might be delivery of five
04:33
sheep and they would put those sheep
04:37
into this clay ball and then they would
04:40
put their signatures by rolling a little
04:45
signature stone all over the ball so
04:49
that the so that it covered the ball now
04:52
why did they do why did they roll it to
04:55
cover the ball they rolled it so that
04:57
nobody could break in poke a hole in
04:59
there and take out one of the the stones
05:01
so that was a technology that protected
05:04
against the corruption of the contract
05:07
and well why did they have these five
05:13
little pieces like this the bull they
05:15
were used before the invention of
05:17
writing and this was a financial
05:21
contract that preceded the ability to
05:23
actually write one down now is this
05:27
permanent well it’s lasted for five
05:29
thousand years so that’s a lot longer
05:31
than any blockchain is ever gonna last
05:33
in our society so this was a great
05:35
invention maybe never Minh carving it in
05:40
stone
05:41
this is one of the greatest permanent
05:43
records of a quantitative contract now
05:47
that bull a system evolved into this
05:50
system which is a written record in
05:53
writing the writing was developed in
05:56
order to in order to record financial
05:59
contracts or business contracts I call
06:02
anything that has a dimension of a
06:03
promise today and a delivery tomorrow
06:06
finance so here is an interest rate
06:10
here’s a here’s a loan from about 1600
06:14
BC and those little marks on the outside
06:18
of the ball became cuneiform writing
06:23
impressed into a tablet it became really
06:27
kind of a pain to have to put things
06:30
inside the ball so they would they would
06:33
make marks on the outside saying
06:35
five sheep in those marks on the outside
06:38
became the written language the word for
06:41
sheep came from a little symbol for
06:43
sheep and five you had to poke little
06:45
five little holes but then they figured
06:46
out a nice system for for making bigger
06:49
and bigger numbers so if anybody asks
06:52
you why finance is important well led to
06:54
the invention of the written of written
06:56
language by the way it also was
07:00
essential when that wasn’t just a
07:02
contract between two people more than
07:04
likely it was a contract for delivery of
07:06
goods to a central temple the as cities
07:11
grew you had to have a way of planning
07:13
for getting food to people and a way a
07:16
process of Taxation so the growth of
07:19
cities was facilitated by the ability to
07:21
make these longer-term contracts and
07:24
also plans a planning accordingly over
07:28
over years and so it was the first thing
07:33
that finance made possible was was a
07:35
larger urban made cities gave them
07:40
ability to grow larger I’ll show you one
07:44
more of these tablets before we move on
07:46
because this is my favorite this is a
07:49
this is a tablet that’s about the size
07:51
of a pineapple and it’s in the Yale
07:55
library and it’s in Sumerian you the way
08:00
you could tell that is that the marks
08:02
are in these little boxes and it’s the
08:07
first record of compound interest so if
08:11
anybody’s you know asked where does
08:14
compound interest come from this thing
08:16
dates to 2600 to 2400 BC and the
08:23
compound interest part I can actually
08:25
show you something about it it was a
08:28
dispute between two city-states in now
08:33
in Iraq and if you zoom in on Google
08:35
Earth they both they look like desert
08:38
and one state conquered the other state
08:42
but in doing so it forced it to pay
08:45
reparations it said look you’ve had our
08:48
land for
08:49
eighty years and we want you to give it
08:53
back but also pay interests on the for
08:56
those eighty years interest rate for
08:59
that payment was 33 and a third percent
09:01
per year okay that’s even higher than I
09:05
pay on my credit card which is limited
09:08
at twenty nine point nine percent so
09:10
compound two credit card debt for 80
09:13
years you know it’s gonna be huge
09:16
so to deal with these issues the
09:20
Mesopotamians had the invent ways of
09:22
making very very large numbers so you
09:25
can see on this where the numbers are
09:28
see this right down here these three
09:30
holes that number has to represent
09:33
something that now we would regard we’d
09:37
measure in the billions and the way that
09:41
it worked was first you’d stick a little
09:43
hope you turn over your stick and it was
09:45
at around bought a bottom like a like I
09:47
am like an eraser you’d stick that in
09:52
and that represented 60 because it was
09:54
base 60 and then you’d have a larger
09:56
stick and put on top of that it would be
09:58
60 squared and you could use powers of
10:04
60 successively to represent larger and
10:07
larger numbers so this was a quite an
10:09
ingenious I would call it software the
10:12
the development of mathematics to
10:14
express very large numbers an imaginary
10:18
number actually because nobody was ever
10:19
gonna pay back what amounts to about a
10:21
trillion bushels of brain but it was
10:25
financed it used in the kind of service
10:28
of a political dispute so this is just a
10:33
fascinating document that that shows you
10:35
how finance financial thinking was
10:37
integrated into the notion of of society
10:40
politics and the state okay today now
10:46
also we’re excited about new payment
10:47
systems we don’t use cash very much
10:53
anymore the younger you are the more
10:56
likely that you are to be using a social
10:58
media app like venmo to pay even
11:01
though your friends can see what you’re
11:02
buying it seems to be kind of what
11:05
people do and then we also have
11:09
interesting challenges to large scale
11:12
payment systems now Bitcoin being one of
11:16
them so the payment system in
11:22
Mesopotamia was all an accounting system
11:25
they didn’t have coins so all of those
11:29
records I was showing you they may have
11:31
used silver as a as a unit of account
11:33
but by and large everybody had some
11:37
account or ledger that they were running
11:39
with with each other and part of that
11:42
was because you know it was it was it
11:45
was a City based organizational
11:47
structure where you kind of knew who was
11:50
coming in and out of your city and how
11:51
long they would be there but you want
11:56
your payment system to be convenient
11:59
secure accepted and you don’t want there
12:03
to be the possibility of inflation so I
12:05
put limited there that’s why Bitcoin has
12:09
this feature of only so many bitcoins
12:10
being made and then everybody keeps
12:12
losing them so that’s even makes them
12:14
more valuable the really innovative
12:18
payment system of the 7th century
12:22
borderline 6th century BC was coinage so
12:28
we always think well the invention of
12:30
money must be coins money was invented
12:32
before coins coins just became a very
12:34
convenient way when there was a bunch of
12:36
when there was trade in the in the
12:38
Mediterranean you didn’t know whether
12:40
the person you could run an account with
12:42
a sailor who might have come from from
12:44
Athens 3-year three months ago you would
12:49
use these coins you know you check the
12:51
people would get coins when they entered
12:54
your port they use the coins to buy
12:57
things and then you didn’t care whether
12:59
you ever saw them again so Athens itself
13:02
had the fort a good fortune of being
13:04
located right near one of the most the
13:07
largest silver mines in the
13:09
Mediterranean a lot of the Athenian
13:11
wealth came from that act
13:13
to silver that then became the coin of
13:16
the widespread unit of currency so that
13:21
so much so that the Athenians were in
13:28
the good position of saying well we can
13:30
make Goods come to our we can get grain
13:33
shipped to us and all we give them back
13:35
are these little pieces of silver and
13:37
then they trade amongst themselves with
13:39
this there’s a lot more going on in the
13:42
book about ancient Athens and the
13:44
relationship to the development of
13:46
democracy I get very excited about it
13:48
but but but the payment system alone
13:51
made it really an innovative feature so
13:57
here’s another document the book also
14:01
looks at the Chinese side of things the
14:04
financial innovations in China and how
14:07
that related to the Chinese state but
14:09
China invented paper money this is a
14:13
document that dates to the Ming Dynasty
14:16
early Ming Dynasty so for those of you
14:19
that read Chinese this is a da ming and
14:21
it says the great Ming universally
14:24
circulating Treasury note and this is
14:26
the sign for money and this is an
14:29
amazing technology the in order to print
14:34
the money in China and the printing
14:37
began about 1100 AD they had to invent a
14:41
process that that the bills you could
14:44
print thousands and thousands of bills
14:46
and have them all look exactly alike
14:49
they invented a copperplate engraving so
14:54
the woodblock engraving wasn’t good
14:56
enough they had to have a copper plate
14:57
in order to print these things and then
14:59
they put you can see as a technology to
15:01
prevent counterfeiting they filled it
15:04
full of all of these decorative borders
15:07
in order to make it something that
15:09
people would recognize that to people
15:11
that were illiterate that couldn’t read
15:13
they had to put a picture of how many
15:15
strings of coins that you this was good
15:17
for and then they had an
15:20
anti-counterfeiting feature built right
15:22
into this thing quite quite innovative
15:26
this message is a long message it
15:29
basically said anybody caught
15:32
counterfeiting will be killed anybody
15:35
who turns in the counterfeiter will get
15:38
a reward so so the doc it’s a contract
15:43
right there that is sort of self
15:45
reinforcing okay so these new payment
15:53
systems that’s just two examples of them
15:57
I want to move on to another broad
15:59
domain of financial innovation and I’m
16:02
going to call that loosely speaking
16:03
trading platforms because one of the
16:06
things I study is private equity and
16:09
private equity has gone from being very
16:11
illiquid to being progressively more
16:14
liquid as you have private shares and
16:16
private equity ventures limited
16:18
partnership shares that that exchanges
16:22
have been created intermediation has
16:24
made it possible to actually sell these
16:27
things and this we think of as a very
16:29
positive development for for investors
16:33
and then we hear about new trading
16:36
platforms on the internet for all sorts
16:39
of things and new ways to access
16:42
investors and so forth so I’m going to
16:44
show you that you know there are a few
16:49
principles that you need transparency
16:52
you need active share trading so
16:56
liquidity you need to make it accessible
17:00
to a broad pool of those people that
17:05
hold the shares and there’s a desire for
17:09
a fairness because if you think somebody
17:11
else knows more than you or somebody
17:13
else has an advantage you’re not going
17:15
to trade with them and so the market
17:17
will break down and so those are the
17:19
features that from the very beginning of
17:22
financial markets were necessary this is
17:28
a bond that we have in the collection at
17:30
the Yale School of Management and it
17:32
it’s a tradable security and so this
17:37
security was originally developed
17:40
in 1648 and it was issued in Holland
17:46
near Utrecht and it was issued to
17:49
finance it was a it was an
17:51
infrastructure bond to to finance a very
17:54
small curve in the the river lek
18:00
it’s called elected Ike Bhavan Dahms
18:03
is the name of the place and so they
18:07
sold off these bonds they fixed up this
18:09
piece of property and the bonds are
18:13
perpetual bonds so this is a living
18:16
financial instrument every every decade
18:19
or so somebody from Yale has to fly over
18:22
to Utrecht and then presents something
18:27
and say okay pay me the dividends the
18:29
coupon on this loan and we only do it
18:33
every 10 years or so because that’s
18:35
about what it takes to pay the airfare
18:37
that’s how much we get it but what’s
18:42
amazing about this is in Europe bonds
18:45
were invented and the trade ability
18:48
makes them an extraordinary instrument
18:51
for savings you know if you don’t have
18:54
bonds what what other instrument do you
18:56
have for whatever the perpetual
18:59
instrument do you have you have property
19:03
you know you have agriculture you know
19:04
your fields where you can go grow grain
19:06
but this was a substitute for that a
19:10
financial substitute for physical
19:12
property along with the creation of
19:19
bonds and actually saw the earliest
19:22
bonds that were created were sovereign
19:24
bonds actually bonds that were issued by
19:26
Venice the republic venetian republic in
19:34
order to make these things they got more
19:37
and more valuable when people realized
19:39
that not only could they pass the they
19:41
give them to their children and so forth
19:43
but that you could you could trade them
19:46
and the first bond exchange the first
19:49
bond market is the in the Rialto Square
19:53
in Venice so that’s that’s what we’re
19:55
looking at here and this was a it’s the
20:00
heart of one of the Europe s– earliest
20:02
of financial centers so not only did you
20:06
could you trade your bonds you could
20:10
also get loans there there were bankers
20:12
there there were insurance brokers there
20:15
so um
20:17
everybody you know it’s exciting to go
20:18
to Venice and go to piazza de san marco
20:20
and look at this beautiful architecture
20:22
but if you think of the really at the
20:25
heart of what made Venice great there
20:27
were three parts there’s the arson alley
20:28
where they could build those fantastic
20:30
boats but before they built the boats
20:32
they had to have the money to build them
20:34
and this is where the the money was
20:37
being generated so I think of this as a
20:40
must-see for Venice that that that few
20:44
people recognize is Atlanta a watershed
20:46
in the history of Finance okay
20:51
I’ve gotten very interested in
20:53
crowdfunding I think I think it’s got
20:55
the potential to democratize access to
20:58
ventures in a way that we don’t have now
21:01
venture capital now I think is been
21:05
captured by a set of institutions
21:08
private equity partnerships and so forth
21:11
and yet in much of the large gains to
21:15
let’s say to to Apple and and and
21:20
Facebook and and so forth I went to to
21:23
to these to a few institutions that were
21:27
investing in venture capital now we have
21:31
the ability to have websites where you
21:35
and I could go and invest you know two
21:38
or three thousand dollars and then
21:39
participate possibly in the next big
21:42
Facebook I think this is a fantastic
21:45
thing but it threatens existing
21:47
institutional structures and because of
21:51
that ever since the beginning of sort of
21:52
a crowdfunding approach there has been a
21:55
resistance to this democracy
21:59
innovation and growth
22:05
I mentioned this I
22:07
I see it as bringing in new investors
22:10
allowing new enterprises to develop for
22:14
creating a new model for governance
22:16
collective capital and and and that
22:18
involves distributing the control of
22:21
these ventures one of the big
22:25
innovations in financial history is the
22:28
creation of the corporation and with it
22:32
permanent capital that can be traded on
22:36
an exchange I showed you a bond exchange
22:38
before this is a picture of a Dutch
22:41
Dutch East Indies Indies company boat
22:44
and the crowdfunding feature of it was
22:49
the sale of broad sale of shares amongst
22:54
not amongst many Dutch investors what
22:58
they made possible was also a sharing in
23:02
their risks associated with that so when
23:05
we think of equity corporations that
23:10
that that emerged during the late 1600s
23:14
and early 1700s they were oftentimes
23:18
connected to international trade and and
23:23
so a way of capitalizing ventures that
23:26
required quite a bit of an investment to
23:29
create to build boats and so forth but
23:32
as well boats that might not come back
23:37
I’m going to show you another side which
23:39
i think is also I think I would argue as
23:42
equally socially beneficial who
23:45
internationally as opposed to
23:47
international trade which is equity
23:49
funding of an early corporation in
23:53
Toulouse in the in the 13th century so
23:59
and this is just part of my personal
24:01
research here is from the Nuremberg
24:05
chronicles which has great pictures of
24:06
us of cities here is Toulouse and la vie
24:11
rose and over on the left-hand side what
24:14
looks like a bridge is actually a mill
24:17
that water would flow through and it
24:20
would turn big millstones this was the
24:25
earliest recorded corporate organization
24:28
had limited liability it had a board
24:31
structure it had a rotating board
24:32
structure it had external accounting it
24:36
had one shareholder one vote as opposed
24:39
to one share one vote many different
24:42
features of it argue that it was a early
24:45
corporation I told you that some of my
24:48
personal research is about this the
24:51
feature that I’ve spent some time on is
24:53
collecting the prices and I do this with
24:56
two two other economists in Toulouse
25:01
they’ve spent the time collecting the
25:04
data so I’m taking credit for it today
25:07
but collecting the prices and the
25:09
dividends for this company that it goes
25:13
back another couple of hundred years but
25:15
we have excellent data from about 1,500
25:18
or so and there are two lines here one
25:22
line is the is the price level of the
25:26
shares and so that’s all the way over
25:28
here 6000 leave turn wah which is quite
25:32
a sum of money they weren’t cheap shares
25:35
and then the dividends on this side so
25:38
here’s a picture with a rolling average
25:40
where you can see that the over the long
25:44
term prices and dividends for this
25:47
company moved together in quite a
25:50
rational way as the dividends go up the
25:53
prices go up and to make a long story
25:57
short you might want to know what the
26:00
long term rate of return on this oldest
26:02
living company is it lived up until the
26:05
French nationalized it in 1946 the rate
26:08
of return was about 5% real return per
26:12
year now that’s a company that survived
26:15
a whole lot but but nevertheless it’s
26:20
kind of nice to know what the what the
26:22
expectation was and what the realization
26:24
was through that time these shares were
26:27
actively treated as well and eventually
26:28
the company got listed on the Paris
26:30
force although it was nationalized the
26:34
French also have recently spun off part
26:36
of their electrical company which is
26:38
what now is hydroelectricity is the
26:42
raison d’être for this firm and so now
26:45
you could go back and buy a little bit
26:46
of this ancient firm if you wanted okay
26:51
I’m gonna wind up with some areas of
26:54
data analytics big data that’s also
26:57
something I think a lot about I use text
27:02
analytical tools and and things like
27:06
that to to explore in my research and so
27:14
there are historical precedents for all
27:17
of these one of the most interesting is
27:21
the one of the things that really made a
27:24
difference in the in the business of the
27:30
Middle Ages was the introduction of
27:32
Arabic numerals and algorithms for
27:35
calculating net present value and so
27:40
some of the things I’ve worked on
27:41
personally are these are two pages from
27:44
the mathematician Fibonacci his book
27:48
which was a textbook about business
27:51
finance essentially our business
27:52
operations and he introduced or he
27:55
wasn’t the first one but he popularized
27:58
the use of Arabic numerals in for
28:02
merchants and this is a kind of a
28:05
handwritten page from Laurinaitis books
28:07
and he had several banking problems so
28:11
you know we sort of banking had to go
28:14
underground after about the middle of
28:17
the 12 hundreds there wasn’t a lot
28:19
written about it explicitly but before
28:22
it did the Fibonacci was solving very
28:25
complex problems of interest rates and
28:30
so so this book one of the things that’s
28:36
exciting about it is the under the
28:40
understanding of the present value
28:42
relation another thing that was
28:46
introduced as a result of financial
28:48
problems is the correct calculation for
28:52
life annuities I will just say there’s a
28:55
long story behind this guy John divot
28:58
but but he was the first to realize to
29:04
actually quantify the difference between
29:06
writing a an annuity contract for a 5
29:09
year old girl and an 80 year old man and
29:13
before that it wasn’t clear what the
29:15
mathematics were because life expectancy
29:17
was not carefully thought through ok so
29:23
one last bit
29:24
Cambridge analytic he’s on all of our
29:28
minds one of the things it exploits
29:31
exploited is people’s willingness to
29:34
jump in and tell tell tell the world
29:37
about itself of answered questions this
29:40
sort of strange enthusiasm for the
29:42
internet and I also work in behavioral
29:46
finance and so I think you can’t
29:49
separate finance from human behavior all
29:52
sorts of mathematical analysis involved
29:54
but bottom line there are people making
29:55
decisions now here’s a print of the the
30:04
first big famous financial bubble which
30:08
is tulip mania and in this picture you
30:12
see the same thing you just saw saw in
30:13
the previous picture here’s a hat with
30:16
no head ok here is a little scheme of a
30:20
brain separated from the body now what
30:24
do you see here a hat with no head and
30:28
the whole narrative that about how
30:34
foolish the speculators in the tulip
30:36
bubble were this notion that the brain
30:41
can go haywire and and do things that
30:45
are not good for the the
30:47
good for the markets and good for
30:49
Humanity is is built in from the
30:51
earliest critiques of financial markets
30:57
the most famous a case that is anyway
31:03
another case that I’ve studied is the
31:05
case of John law the speculator the
31:09
gambler the visionary financier who
31:13
built this company of the Mississippi in
31:16
France in the early 1700s and this
31:20
became the first incredible bubble in
31:23
stocks and the reason that he was okay
31:28
there are many reasons that people posit
31:30
but I think the reason why he was so
31:32
successful at getting people to buy
31:35
stocks in a company that essentially was
31:38
created to exploit the Mississippi West
31:41
in in America is because he understood
31:44
this this this drive for transforming
31:48
your personal wealth the idea that you
31:51
could buy something and all of a sudden
31:52
be as rich as the people who you are
31:54
watching their carriages go by and
31:56
democratizing that I think it’s very
31:58
powerful and that has hooked people in
32:01
to to investing so here’s a picture of
32:05
John law he’s up here this is the rookin
32:09
Kapaa which now is right behind in paris
32:12
the central Pompidou but the important
32:15
part are all of the people the pictures
32:17
of this fear this excited one wild crowd
32:21
trying to trade all of these shares that
32:26
bubble that Mississippi bubble is
32:29
represented here in a recent thing from
32:32
The Economist or Bloomberg actually it
32:34
shows you how high that bubble is
32:37
compared to the dot-com bubble and
32:40
compared to tulip mania and here’s
32:43
Bitcoin so are we in a historic period
32:47
maybe so but so I can’t resist a little
32:54
bit more about the future
32:56
you take in this whole sweep my main
32:59
theme has been finances a technology
33:01
that deals with the same old problems
33:03
right the themes the recognized today
33:07
are the themes that were solved in
33:09
different ways in the past but I think
33:11
that the things that have to be
33:14
addressed in the future are this
33:16
relationship between finance the mind
33:19
the emotion where there can be a
33:22
breakdown in rationality we argue about
33:26
whether we should be Patra a
33:28
paternalistic and not let people invest
33:30
their own money or just let them do
33:33
whatever they want and then live with
33:34
the consequences that’s a name that’s a
33:37
very live and important debate I think
33:40
finance is going to be used important
33:43
for the next level of infrastructure
33:44
that is the global level of
33:46
infrastructure if we need to solve
33:48
problems about the environment that
33:51
require a global of technological
33:54
solution that’s a whole one or two
33:57
levels of magnitude beyond what we
34:02
currently have the capability for
34:03
financing but I think it may be
34:05
something that we should prepare for and
34:09
finally the age-old problem of people
34:12
out living their their means of economic
34:15
support so that again is something that
34:19
particularly in the United States with
34:21
our state pension systems failing so
34:23
badly finance is got to solve and novel
34:30
propositions are things that we going to
34:33
have to consider so I’ll leave it with
34:37
those big issues thank you very much for
34:39
your attention and happy to hear your
34:43
thoughts
34:44
[Applause]